AA2520 or IMR4064 for. 30-06 M1 Garand? [office hours] (2023)

Vikings in exile

14.09.21, 03:17

blue gunner

14.09.21, 10:29

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/m1-garand-handloads

Stock M1s are very specific for rate of fire. If you read the article I linked you will see that aftermarket plugs are mentioned as being available for firing modern/hot ammo.

Tom Mc

14.09.21, 10:37

Both powders are a bit too fast to be ideal for 30-06, but if that's all you can get I'd say they're both pretty close on the firing chart, with the 2520 being slightly slower. 2520 flows better out of a powder gun, but the IMR can offer better case filling (charge density) because it's bulkier. I have used AA2230, 2460 and 2520 for .223, prefer 2230, I have used IMR on my 7mm MR and am currently using IMR7828. If it were me, I would use the IMR4064 for better package density.

After reading the Handloader Magazine article above, it seems that both drive worlds work well for the gas system in an M1. I was thinking more of optimizing the speed of a screw action. Slower powders generally give better velocities. I would still use the 4064 for better padding.

HK pistol

14.09.21, 10:46

Kerplode

14.09.21, 13:32

The AA2520 and IMR4064 are reasonable choices, as is the 4895. Both should work fine on the Garand without overloading the gas system.

2520, which is a bullet powder, could benefit from a Mil or Mag primer for smoother ignition. It also probably shows more temperature variation than pen powder, but measures well.

Vikings in exile

14.09.21, 13:44

The AA2520 and IMR4064 are reasonable choices, as is the 4895. Both should work fine on the Garand without overloading the gas system.

2520, which is a bullet powder, could benefit from a Mil or Mag primer for smoother ignition. It also probably shows more temperature variation than pen powder, but measures well. Many Thanks.
My understanding is that Winchester LRPs are on the plus side and about the same as magnum primers.

Kerplode

14-09-21, 14:01

I think you should definitely try them! Win LRP is a good base and you will most likely be fine with 2520 unless you have very low temps or something.

Load up a few, fire 'em, and see what you see. If you notice a big spread in your speeds in one session, or if you get a few laps in a good group but have some uncalled flyers, go back and try a mag chart (if you get one) and see see if things are working out. .

But if they shoot consistently, then go for it.

Kerplode

14.09.21, 14:11

Regardless of which one you land on first, MAKE SURE they are all slightly underground. This is extremely important to prevent wildfires and OOB discharges in Garand.

Run your finger over the back of each box after you've made them... If you feel the primer is peeling off, even a little, repair it immediately.

T2C

14.09.21, 17:49

IMR 4895 is a good powder for bullets between 147g and 155g. For bullets over 155g, IMR 4064 is a good powder. Stay away from fluffy primers.

Hornady reloading manuals published in the last 10-15 years should have a section on reloading service rifles. The service rifle load data must be safe for your operating rod.

I installed a Garand Gear gas cap on my Garand 30-06 M1 for a little extra security in protecting the actuator rod and receiver bridge. http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html

T2C

14.09.21, 21:22

m1a_scoutguy

14.09.21, 21:53

The AA2520 and IMR4064 are reasonable choices, as is the 4895. Both should work fine on the Garand without overloading the gas system.

2520, which is a bullet powder, could benefit from a Mil or Mag primer for smoother ignition. It also probably shows more temperature variation than pen powder, but measures well.

I think you should definitely try them! Win LRP is a good base and you will most likely be fine with 2520 unless you have very low temps or something.

Load up a few, fire 'em, and see what you see. If you notice a big spread in your speeds in one session, or if you get a few laps in a good group but have some uncalled flyers, go back and try a mag chart (if you get one) and see see if things are working out. .

But if they shoot consistently, then go for it.

I have used both successfully. For Blamo ammo, 2520 is good and accurate enough. Remember that a base/stock M1 is 3 MOA or less depending on how it is stocked/configured. IMR4064 is also a great 06/M1 powder and I have loaded many RDS with 150FMJ/155Nosler Match/168 Sierra/Nosler etc. with excellent results. I use almost Winchester LRP on my M1s and even my 6/30 sniper rifle and have had good results and they shoot on par with CCI BR/Federal Gold NM and CCI 34 military primers on my rifles, YMMV. If you're changing ammo and carrying a lot of different bullets and powders, the adjustable gas cap is a viable addition. I'm pretty consistent in the weights of bullets and powder I use so I don't mess around with them. Powders are hard to come by these days so use what you have I guess. I ended up getting quite a lot of H4895 and I love it, I think it's the closest if not original type of canister the military used in '06 shipments back then. IMR4895 is also a good option and works great on 308. Let us know how it goes and what you think of.

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 02:33

Regardless of which one you land on first, MAKE SURE they are all slightly underground. This is extremely important to prevent wildfires and OOB discharges in Garand.

Run your finger over the back of each box after you've made them... If you feel the primer is peeling off, even a little, repair it immediately.

Due to today's weather I'm limited to Winchester LRP.
I've been taught to check every manual to make sure it's sub-par and will continue to do so. Many Thanks.

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 02:53

It seems I'm going with the AA2520 because my friend who helps me reload .30-06 has a long history with the AA2520 on a Garand. And to carry the can and bullets that I have, I'm going to need about 4 pounds. My friend says he could use some of this too.
I won't be racing him, it's just for fun so I won't be chasing the best powder/primers/bullets/groups.
As it is, I'm glad I found these components.

I appreciate all your answers. I'll report back when I've taken some pictures.

m1a_scoutguy

15.09.21, 09:11

It seems I'm going with the AA2520 because my friend who helps me reload .30-06 has a long history with the AA2520 on a Garand. And to carry the can and bullets that I have, I'm going to need about 4 pounds. My friend says he could use some of this too.
I won't be racing him, it's just for fun so I won't be chasing the best powder/primers/bullets/groups.
As it is, I'm glad I found these components.

I appreciate all your answers. I'll report back when I've taken some pictures.

You'll get by with the 2520, it's good for what you do and it's easy to carry because it's a dust ball. There's a reason it was/is called Camp Perry Powder; It was very popular with service riflemen. With all that has been suggested, if you don't already have one, I recommend a Wilson sling gauge. She will help you set up your sizing matrix for the correct shoulder notch and will check the overall length so you can see if the sling needs it. Cut. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016251573?pid=685086 Important for M1 and all service rifles. Have fun and let's see some pics when you're done! 🇧🇷

jsbhike

15.09.21, 09:27

Hornady has a downloadable manual that will give you cartridge specs for a dollar or two each. One they've specifically listed is the M1 Garand, so it might be worth downloading.

I don't have the exact PDF in front of me, but I'm pretty sure they create a similar upload record.

I knew I had seen another M1 specific record and it was Hodgdon. I hope this helps you find an available match.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

HK pistol

15.09.21, 09:48

I'm currently watching the 11th edition of the Hornady online app. For M1 Garand, the powders listed for 150 grain bullets are as follows: H335 - A2495 - A2550 - V N135 - Varget - H4895.

H335 and V N135 seem to give you the highest speeds.

Obviously, this is just a bookmark provider guide, and there are other viable options.

4064 will not appear until 168 gram pens are used.

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 12:52

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 13:01

Hornady has a downloadable manual that will give you cartridge specs for a dollar or two each. One they've specifically listed is the M1 Garand, so it might be worth downloading.

I don't have the exact PDF in front of me, but I'm pretty sure they create a similar upload record.

I knew I had seen another M1 specific record and it was Hodgdon. I hope this helps you find an available match.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

Many Thanks. I emailed Accurate about the Garand specific payloads for the AA2520 and they responded quickly with the Hornady payload data. They said they plan to conduct their own tests for Garand.
Hodgdon has a PDF available from his reference data in the resources section with payloads for the M1 Garand. https://hodgdon.com/resources/data-sheets/?_ga=2.17400957.596173915.1631724296-1833437275.1631571378

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 13:16

I'm currently watching the 11th edition of the Hornady online app. For M1 Garand, the powders listed for 150 grain bullets are as follows: H335 - A2495 - A2550 - V N135 - Varget - H4895.

H335 and V N135 seem to give you the highest speeds.

Obviously, this is just a bookmark provider guide, and there are other viable options.

4064 will not appear until 168 gram pens are used.

Many Thanks. My friend has one of the latest Hornady books and it says it has a section on Garand so let's take a look.

Kerplode

15.09.21, 13:33

I just noticed that a lot of A2520s are being recalled. Information here (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/We-will-provide-instructions-on-powder-disposal-and-issue-a-refund-check-to-impacted -Customers..jpg).

Check your inventory before proceeding. 🇧🇷

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 13:44

I just noticed that a lot of A2520s are being recalled. Information here (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/We-will-provide-instructions-on-powder-disposal-and-issue-a-refund-check-to-impacted -Customers..jpg).

Check your inventory before proceeding. :-) I saw that the other night. Thankfully, it only applies to 1-pound cans. I'm going to buy an 8 pound pitcher. Many Thanks.

m1a_scoutguy

15.09.21, 14:17

I appreciate this advice. After reading the service rifle section of Sierra's reloading book, I purchased an RCBS Precision Mic https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/measuring/precision-mic/564.html to measure the distance. This section was very informative. I intend to read it again.

Yes, the Sierra manual has some good information. I have that manual, and as mentioned, Hornady also has a service rifle section, but use what you have, it's fine. Here's information I printed out from the CMP forum years ago and kept in the pages of my reload books, good stuff and will come in handy when times get back to normal and I have access to more options. The RCBS microphone also works perfectly.

.30 caliber M1 rounds recommended by the NRA

FMJ caramels or HPBT from 147 to 155 grains
IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains

Answer FMJ, HP or SP de Grano 165/168
IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains

Balas FMJ oder HPBT de Grano 173/175

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains

Bullets FMJ, SP or HPBT of 180 grains
IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains
Cases:
*The payloads listed above use business cases* WW seems to be the best case.

primers:
I also recommend using large WW rifle primers as they are just as hard as mil-spec primers. CCI #34 is a Mil-Spec primer, but it is also a MAG primer and should be used with gunpowder. Federal Gold Medal Match primers are very good primers but some say they are too soft and should not be used in an "M" pistol as SLAM FIRES!

Post:
As for powders, the IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 are excellent powders to use with the M1 at 0.30 cal. Some use Varget and VV140, but your results will vary. A word to the wise: The old rule of thumb in the dust is nothing faster than 4895 and nothing slower than 4064. Good words to start with.

Bullets: The 168 Sierra Match King and the 175 Sierra Match King are the two bullets you would look for if you want to make "match" ammo for a 1-10 GI revolver rifle. The 168 is a 300 meter missile with an older style boat stern. It still works great but the 175 MK is the way to fly. The BC is about 19% better and that means fewer button turns at 600 yards and beyond. The 175 Mk is basically a redesigned 173 gram GI bullet built in a 1-12 round barrel for stabilization. I wouldn't shoot more than 175g bullets in a GI gun that I really care about. People used to shoot the 180gr MK but that was before the 175mk came out.

Applicable Fees:
The old stock “M72” LC Match ammo shoots great in GI rifles and Federal Gold Medal Match shoots great in some rifles, but if you want to create a load that fires like a house on fire, give these sizes a try. * I can't claim to be the guy who invented these piles of old matches. The M1 has been around for a long time and there really is nothing new when it comes to payloads. Sure, VLD bullets and new designer powders came along and made things better. Good Good. For my money, they work all day, every day. 🇧🇷

175gr MK
WW-Grand-Prix
WW-Fall
47gr 4064
3.340 OaL MAX.

168 MK
WW-Grand-Prix
WW-Fall
48 4064
3.340 OAL MAX.

4895 works just as well with these loads, just adjust the load according to the table above. H4895 never hurts either.

_________________

Vikings in exile

15.09.21, 21:14

M1AScoutguy, thanks for this great information. I ordered the Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts that say you need to use a cam brush after every interval session. Is this really the case? In this case I am adding it to my order for an Orion 7 operating rod spring, a clip lock spring and some block clips.

m1a_scoutguy

15.09.21, 22:37

M1AScoutguy, thanks for this great information. I ordered the Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts that say you need to use a cam brush after every interval session. Is this really the case? In this case I am adding an Orion 7 operating rod spring, a clip latch spring and some en bloc clips to my order.

LOL, am I the wrong guy to ask about cleaning my rifle after every shoot? :p I'll say it probably won't hurt, but seriously I'll say do whatever you feel is necessary. Well if the rifle is to be placed or stored depending on the environment, hot/dry/wet etc then yes. Anyway, I say yes to having some camera brushes handy, of course they do a good job when needed. Bought from Orion years ago, lovely outfit also bought from these guys and they are just as good no problems see compare and move on from there. https://ammogarand.com/m1garandoprods.html The beauty of Ammogarand is that you know if it's a GI spare or a newly manufactured one. I'm sure Orion does the same but I haven't visited their website lately so like I said check them both out. I will say when I clean my rifles I just don't use a fancy Hoppes 9, works fine for me, make sure you get a coated rod, more M1s have been ruined with those darn steel cleaning rods than I can imagine. Flip the rifle over so the cleaning solution doesn't get into the gas cylinder and you'll be fine, keep it lubricated and shoot! Have fun and keep us updated on how everything is going.

Vikings in exile

16.09.21, 02:33

HK pistol

16-09-21, 08:22

M1AScoutguy, thanks for this great information. I ordered the Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts that say you need to use a cam brush after every interval session. Is this really the case? In this case I am adding it to my order for an Orion 7 operating rod spring, a clip lock spring and some block clips.

It's a rifle, do it like any other rifle. There is nothing special about the Garand that requires a different level of care than other rifles.

I clean all my guns when I get back from the shooting range. Not because they have to, because I like to keep them clean. I don't put dirty guns in my safes.

Vikings in exile

17-09-21, 20:08

It's a rifle, do it like any other rifle. There is nothing special about the Garand that requires a different level of care than other rifles.

I clean all my guns when I get back from the shooting range. Not because they have to, because I like to keep them clean. I don't put dirty guns in my safes. Many Thanks.

Vikings in exile

17-09-21, 20:09

m1a_scoutguy

17.09.21, 21:26

Has anyone recently bought a CMP Field Grade Garand? I'm considering buying another Garand and the Field Grade seems like a good deal for a fun ranged weapon. No shooting competition.
When I was looking for parts to stock I found that many people were offering very helpful advice; Buy a replacement Garand. Sounds exactly like the advice I've been given here at M4C for almost a decade. Haha.

I will never tell anyone NOT to buy another M1 (I have 6 ;)) so get one! BUT my problem is that I have enough spare parts to retrofit them for years to come. The best recommendation I would say is to have lots of enblocks, some extra SETS of springs, extra +2 screw housings, and just keep an eye on the Op-Rod tab, LOL. There are probably a few other little things you could/should have, but these are the main ones. They can be expensive, but the muzzle and chamber use gauges are nice to have, but if you know what that is when you're starting out you'll have to shoot a lot and heat it up multiple times over many shots before you have to. Be a concern. More M1's are always a good thing LOL

Vikings in exile

17-09-21, 23:10

... just keep an eye on your op rod tab, LOL.

I appreciate the information. I have already ordered more clips on the block (25 per rifle should be enough right?), a set of springs and an extra Orion 7 rod spring. I need to look at the bolt parts and springs. I already have a striker and an extractor on the wagon.

Does $650 for the Field Grade seem like a decent price for a shooter? I expect some service grade guarantees to appear in the next 6-12 months.

m1a_scoutguy

18-09-21, 02:04

I appreciate the information. I have already ordered more clips on the block (25 per rifle should be enough right?), a set of springs and an extra Orion 7 rod spring. I need to look at the bolt parts and springs. I already have a striker and an extractor on the wagon.

Does $650 for the Field Grade seem like a decent price for a shooter? I expect some service grade guarantees to appear in the next 6-12 months.

Yes, 25 blocks is good after all, you cut them 99.9% of the time anyway, so you should be fine with that. Having a spring op rod is nice, sure, I forgot it's a CMP rifle, one you've had for a while, or did you buy it locally? If it is a CMP then the spring should be as new or as new and within spec and should last a long time, Orion will serve you well if required. Having the extra bolt-action parts is nice, but again these rifles hold up and were well constructed, but just like your AR rifles, having the extra parts is reassuring to say the least, whatever the role of the rifle nobody wants a broken one gun and he wants to wait. Spare parts to turn up, LOL! Yes, CMP is hit or miss for sure, I think they still have a decent number of rifles, but they just need to check them out, update them and get them ready for sale. Unfortunately, the CMP may be in the same dilemma as everyone else, no one wants to work and everyone just wants to stay home! :rolleyes: Keep me posted, it seems to be going well!

Derek45

18-09-21, 12:22

good old NRA data

https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jI7KUie.jpg

Vikings in exile

18-09-21, 17:09

good old NRA data

https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jI7KUie.jpg Great photo! Thanks for that information. You should probably go back 10% of that data and do some work.

T2C

19-09-21, 17:51

Vikings in exile

26.09.21, 01:29

I'll watch John C. Garand's game. Many Thanks.

After firing, approximately 150g of stainless steel loaded with AA2520 in PMC brass. Started at 45g and worked up to 47.5 in 0.5 increments. I'll run it next week and time it too.
I think 2650 to 2700 should be a good round without hitting the gun? Are there any recommendations?

m1a_scoutguy

26.09.21, 18:02

I'll watch John C. Garand's game. Many Thanks.

After firing, approximately 150g of stainless steel loaded with AA2520 in PMC brass. Started at 45g and worked up to 47.5 in 0.5 increments. I'll run it next week and time it too.
I think 2650 to 2700 should be a good round without hitting the gun? Are there any recommendations?

Sounds pretty reasonable! Far below the listed MAX at loads over 51 grn, so see it shoot up and adjust from there. These SSTs must shoot well! Let's look at some groups. :D

Vikings in exile

21.04.10, 03:06

I ran the various loads through Garand this weekend. The 46g load seems to be what I'm looking for; 2664 fps with 22 SD. Good liquid pickup load. There are no photos of the target. I forgot. But I managed to keep almost all of the ammo on the 5" target after adjusting the sight to hit POA. I'll take it for the iron sights and my eyeballs!

I'll load a few more 46 gram loads to make sure it wasn't a fluke as the other loads had SD twice as high or worse.

Did I mention I really like this rifle?

Vikings in exile

16.10.21, 19:11

I need some advice as I seem to be chasing my tail. When we timed the first batch of payloads, the AA2520's 46.0g payload at 2664 fps and an SD of 22 and an ES of 77 was the best. Second best was 47.0 at 2757 with an SD of 43 and an ES of 131.

I ran another batch to verify what we saw with the 46.0 payload and added a 46.2 payload for comparison.
I photographed it yesterday and the temperature was a good 15 degrees warmer than last time. The 46.0 load opened to an SD of 52 and an ES of 153 and the average speed dropped slightly to 2628.
The 46.2 charge ran at 2669 with an SD of 44 and an ES of 139.

So to be new; You should look for accuracy first, right? Then followed by ES and finally SD?

Is the speed correct at 2669 fps for unsupported use and reliability? Or do I need to get closer to the Federal American Eagle's 2740 fps with a 150g bullet?

I'm limited to a 100 yard range, and with my eyes I'm good for a sub-8" to 100 group on a good day. So I won't be shooting groups at 300 yards.

T2C

17.10.21, 08:24

If your payload doesn't fill or almost fill the 30-06 frame, you may be seeing a lot of ES and SD. Your goal is an accurate load within the published safe loading area. Sometimes the ES/SD numbers are higher than expected, but the accuracy is acceptable.

I've found bed padding to be a big factor in developing 30-06 loads. As an experiment, try tilting the barrel up and shaking the rifle a bit before leveling the rifle and next time firing through the chronograph displays before each shot and see if that lowers the ES and SD numbers .